SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I haven't just found out, but this seems to be the best place to start.

Despite a rocky start, I thought our relationship was great, but that all changed one night.

At a small party to welcome a new couple to the neighbourhood, my wife, with her inhibitions lowered by alcohol, bragged to everyone about how easy it had been for her to sleep around while travelling overseas.

All faces turned to me as the blood drained from my face and my mouth dropped open.

Early in our relationship she had spent months travelling around Europe without me, often just her and a guy she met (several guys, but one at a time).

I remember desperately trying to come up with an alternative, but the only other time she had travelled overseas without me was as a child, and apart from that "rocky start", we had been together since she was 19.

I didn't say anything that night, and she had no memory of it the next day.

She'd been holding on to this secret for about 25 years! Before this, I had imagined the worst thing she could do was come to me and say something like "I feel really bad about this, but I've made a terrible mistake" ... but this is far worse. She's not contrite (proud, and wanted everyone to know), it wasn't just one guy, or one mistake (not even a mistake), and it explains some weird things I'd noticed in our relationship. Worse than taking away the future I saw for us, she's also taken away our history.

I thought about it a lot over the coming days, and decided, for the sake of our children, to do my best to carry on as if nothing had happened, for as long as I could.

But then, last year, I was diagnosed with cancer. On three occasions I thought I only had a few weeks left. I desperately got my affairs in order and set things up to best cater for my family after I'd gone. I didn't explicitly try to disadvantage her, but I will admit there are aspects of my planning that are an attempt to protect my children (e.g she might meet someone else and I foresee the possibility of everything going to this new partner, completely cutting my children out).

She didn't like some elements of my plan, and I remember being in my hospital bed when she complained about one aspect ... "but what if I want to travel around Europe?"

That was quite a trigger for me. I couldn't stop thinking about this for the rest of that stay in hospital. There were lots of dots that I started joining together. Normally, while on holiday, she wanted to go to new places - if we were travelling to a region we'd been to before, she'd insist we didn't go anywhere we'd been before "I want to see new stuff, not things I've seen before!", but on our trips to Europe, she was always drawn to places where she'd had a good time (often with no specific touristy aspects). We even, at her request, got married in Europe.

After being discharged from hospital, I found it really hard to cope, so I called a counselling service. She saw this in the call history in my phone, and jumped to the conclusion that I'd had an affair, which had resulted in pregnancy.

When she confronted me, I could barely stop myself from bursting out in laughter!

There was no time to discuss it then, but when I returned home that afternoon, I was met by a very angry woman, demanding answers.

Cutting a long story short, she denies everything. But, the more I think about it, the more everything fits together.

A lot has happened since, but everything just strengthens my belief that her bragging was truthful. I know I might be interpreting things to fit my current understanding, but it all just fits together so well.

One example is that, early on, she thought counselling was a great idea ... until she realised I was talking about both of us getting counselling ... she made it clear that wasn't going to happen!

So sorry you're here, regardless of how long ago this may have happened. You are right - infidelity isn't a mistake. A mistake is forgetting to grab a gallon of milk at the store. An A (affair) is conscious decisions to betray you.

Have you heard of projection? That's when somebody projects their actions or values on you. She could be projecting a pregnancy scare on you because that's what may have happened to her.

There are some posts pinned to the top of the forum that are very helpful. The Healing Library is at the top of the site and has a lot of great information. The ICR (I Can Relate) forum has a thread for those who found out years later.

What do you want to do? You may wish to see a lawyer to find out what D (divorce) would look like. You don't have to D, but knowledge may help you.

"Cutting a long story short, she denies everything. "

You told her about her alcohol-fueled confession? What was her reaction? Was she embarrassed that she put you in that position, even though it wasn't true (she claims)?

I am sorry to read your saga here, especially about dealing w/ cancer and her betrayal and subsequent behavior.

If your wife refuses to go to counseling, that is not a good sign IMO. But I can tell you it is very "typical cheater" behavior so it’s no surprise.

How had she been in talking about her affairs and recognizing the trauma and pain she has brought to your marriage?

Make sure your attorney has everything locked up then look after your health. Nothing is as important as that. I am convinced long term stress lowers our immune system’s ability to fight. That should be your focus. This site is to survive infidelity. Dealing with this makes it difficult to do. If you need time away from her to give your body time to rest then do it. Whatever it takes.

Have you heard of projection? That's when somebody projects their actions or values on you. She could be projecting a pregnancy scare on you because that's what may have happened to her.

A lot of what she has done since she accused me of cheating felt to me like she was projecting. I hadn't thought of a pregnancy scare in that context though.

"Cutting a long story short, she denies everything. "

You told her about her alcohol-fueled confession? What was her reaction? Was she embarrassed that she put you in that position, even though it wasn't true (she claims)?

Yes, after she accused me of cheating, I explained the real reason behind me calling a counselling service, and (this may be me making the landscape fit the map*) I felt that she was horrified that I knew and it really took the wind out of her sails.

She has had several different responses: "you must have misheard what I said", "I didn't do anything, I probably just felt the need to brag" (there was no sexual one-upmanship going on at the time), "you had probably said something that upset me that made me want to hurt you".

Oh, and I wouldn't call it a confession; she was so proud of her achievements, and everyone had to know about it! It felt like she'd been really careful to keep this from me, but the urge to brag coupled with her lowered inhibitions was just too much for her to bear.

There has been no apology offered around embarrassing me in front of all of our neighbours (although I think they all would have thought she was referring to a time before I'd met her).

* A poor analogy perhaps, but I remember being on a hike, we'd walked far further than I thought we should have and spoke to the leader ... he pointed out landmarks and how the fitted with where he thought we were on the map ... but it wasn't quite right.

I am sorry to read your saga here, especially about dealing w/ cancer and her betrayal and subsequent behavior.

Thanks.

If your wife refuses to go to counseling, that is not a good sign IMO. But I can tell you it is very "typical cheater" behavior so it’s no surprise.

Yes, the switch between "that's a good idea" to "what, me too? oh hell no!" tells me she's worried that the truth will be confirmed.

How had she been in talking about her affairs and recognizing the trauma and pain she has brought to your marriage?

She denies everything, and the closest she's come to anything like that is to say she wishes I wasn't so jealous.

The "rocky start" I mentioned was that, very early in our relationship she gave me an ultimatum ... she didn't have much experience before she met me and wanted to sleep with other guys ... if I didn't accept it, she would leave me. I won't go into all of the details, but it was a very rough patch, and she slept with at least one other guy (there were others that, she tells me, didn't get as far).
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She treated me like crap and we broke up. I got into another relationship and she suddenly wanted me back. It was good for a while (well, there was the girls' weekend when she and her friend paired up with two guys they met ... while the other pair had some fun, "I didn't do anything!"), and then she went to Europe.

So, yeah, I'll admit to jealousy, but really?

Oh, and, by the way, apparently she was really hurt that I got into that other relationship (AFTER we had broken up!).

Make sure your attorney has everything locked up then look after your health. Nothing is as important as that. I am convinced long term stress lowers our immune system’s ability to fight. That should be your focus. This site is to survive infidelity. Dealing with this makes it difficult to do. If you need time away from her to give your body time to rest then do it. Whatever it takes.

I haven't spoken to an attorney about D, but I've done a lot of research - all resulting in bad news for me.

I'll be OK on that front though.

I'm more concerned about my kids missing out if I don't make it.

I'd like to make things more secure on that front, but the legal advice I've received is that, if I attempt to make anything more favourable for my kids, there's a high likelyhood that she'd contest the will and win.

Something that really irks me is that, before we got married, I asked for a prenup ... she wouldn't have anything to do with it.

While doing my estate planning, I went through several scenarios with her to explain why I'd structured things the way I had.

My main concern was her meeting another guy, having no will, and him eventually getting all of the estate (with my kids missing out entirely).

My second biggest concern was along the same lines, but the new relationship breaking up - while not as bad as the first scenario, it's very likely that a significant portion of the estate would be diverted away from my kids ... her response to this is what irks me though: "what, he could get half of MY stuff? No way! I would insist on a prenup!!!"

I'm very sorry you're dealing with these 2 terrible traumas. I think you're absolutely right in trying to protect your kids. My grandfather did not do that, much to the disadvantage of 4 of his 5 children from 2 different mothers.

My W has a very good head on her shoulders, but she feels some jealousy over relationships I had before I knew W2b was alive, so I can understand your W's dislike of your breakup GF. It doesn't make logical sense, but it does make emotional sense.

Also, what commitments had you made to each other before she went to Europe? (I don't mean to minimize your pain. IMO, recovery may be different when a betrayal has different characteristics.)

Hello LostPast - sorry that you were so publicly embarrassed by your wife's revelations at a party. There are people, and I saw this in another thread on the site, who seem to want to brag about their sexual history. I don't understand why this is something to brag about but....there it is. Some people turn sex into some kind of weird competition. There are things I don't really understand about your story. It sounds like at the beginning of your relationship, late teen years - early 20s? - that you were aware she seemed promiscuous, that she told you she wanted to be with other men? And then.....she did. I guess it was more than you expected and surprising she would talked about this in public with people she doesn't know - apparently it IS something she wants people to know (not you maybe) because alcohol doesn't make us do anything....it gives us the fake courage to do things. It helps us work up the nerve. She apparently IS proud of this history on some level even though she doesn't want YOU to know because....problems. But she doesn't mind the whole new neighborhood knowing because her sexual mores and beliefs are not the same as yours and never have been. She just doesn't want the difficulties of dealing with your obviously more traditional beliefs and hurt feelings of deception. I think your wife may have a past, not just at that time, but others, of things you don't know about.

After knowing she traveled around like this, sounds like with at least one other guy, and made this statement to you about wanting more sexual experience, why did you go back with her and stay with her? As I say, I think her sexual mores and beliefs may basically be different from yours (and most of us) and she's been hiding this for years because she doesn't want consequences, but it doesn't seem to be anything she's ashamed of, just she doesn't want to get shit over it. And I have to wonder if that was the only period she was involved with other men. It may be that two you do not share the same beliefs about what marriage is, what love means, what sex means and how it should be handled. If this were me, I would be honest with her and lay the cards on the table and have these discussions. You may need to have them with a counselor, not specifically a marriage counselor, but more someone who can facilitate discussions rather than "save" marriages. I think you need to get to actually know your wife after all these years because I think she's been hiding a lot about her basic beliefs and nature. Some people are not cut out for marriage, monogamy, etc, and the problem with that is that they hide it from the rest of us and pretend. The deception is always the worst part. I would be open with her about what she said, what your suspicions are, but more basically (because that might just make her shut up or fight back) what her real beliefs are about marriage. If she is honest....I think you'll find these are very different from yours.

Frankly, I am horrified that she made a statement like she wanted to be able to travel to Europe again while you were possibly dying and figuring out how to divide assets. That is an incredibly selfish and cold blooded thing to even be thinking, much less say. I don't know how much this woman actually contributes to your health - I'd start thinking about divorce if I were you, as you don't sound compatible in basic ways to me. I would recommend discussing this with a lawyer. If you might have limited time, and I hope you stay with us for many years, you don't want to spend it wondering what she's been doing behind your back and what might happen after you're gone. She doesn't sound trustworthy - or even kind. And your concerns and her treatment of you may be damaging your health. It sounds to me like she has always had the upper hand in your relationship and now she's projecting her own behavior onto you - personally I would talk to a lawyer about divorce. If I had been a female neighbor at that party....I would not want to interact with her and I especially would not want my spouse anywhere near her. I don't think this relationship is good for your health frankly.

[This message edited by BondJaneBond at 5:36 PM, Sunday, August 17th]

Also, what commitments had you made to each other before she went to Europe? (I don't mean to minimize your pain. IMO, recovery may be different when a betrayal has different characteristics.)

We had been living together for about two years.

After knowing she traveled around like this, sounds like with at least one other guy, and made this statement to you about wanting more sexual experience, why did you go back with her and stay with her?

The guy she slept with was after she gave me the ultimatum. Why did I acquiesce? I loved her, and thought I could handle it (I did put boundaries around it). When it happened, it hit harder than I thought it would - I tried to talk to her about it, but she just treated me like crap (leading to the breakup).

I still loved her, and her attitude towards me completely turned around. She made it clear to me that I was more important than any need to "explore" further.

Things were good until the Europe trip. Her almost constantly travelling with several guys (one at a time) certainly made me jealous, but at the time I believed she was being faithful.

Frankly, I am horrified that she made a statement like she wanted to be able to travel to Europe again while you were possibly dying and figuring out how to divide assets. That is an incredibly selfish and cold blooded thing to even be thinking, much less say.

Well, to be fair, at the time she didn't know that I knew about her particular attraction to Europe.

Regarding her seemingly being promiscuous, we were dating for a couple of months before we slept together, so my first impressions certainly were not along those lines.

Regarding her having the upper hand in our relationship? Yes. Not initially, even not after the reconciliation. But, in hindsight, it became more and more one-sided after Europe ... I now put that down to her thinking "I found it really easy to sleep with multiple guys, I'm therefore much better than this guy I've somehow ended up with!"

I haven't spoken to an attorney about D, but I've done a lot of research - all resulting in bad news for me.

You need to speak to an attorney on how best to protect your kids when you die. It may be that you can change the beneficiary of a few policies or assets to a trust for the kids to isolate her control. Because she has certain rights due to being your wife, that may mean that you will need to bite the bullet and divorce. That should at least help you protect what's left of your half. You could direct that into a trust for the kids with third party control of those funds. I wouldn't trust her to not be selfish even in regard to her kids.

Legal advice from someone with family and estate law is needed to determine what path will be the safest, best path. Having the divorce in place and assets divided should at least protect your plans to secure your kids future. If you die while married, then by default she will have control of anything that you try to leave for the kids. Good chance she would win on overturning any will bypassing her for your kids. Worse yet that gets litigated with just her alive.

With her previous open relationship demand, I'd say you're reading of the situation was accurate. She already had a history of being selfish. She had already chosen sampling other guys over your relationship. She only came back when you had found another, and she feared losing you and your future wallet permanently. I don't buy that she was suddenly monogamous when she traveled across Europe as a single woman. With random guys accompanying her along the way. That she then threw it out to all the neighbors that "how easy it would be to fool around while traveling overseas." That's pretty much saying she is only faithful to not get caught. Not only did she embarrass you, that declaration put any neighbors with potential interest on notice that she'd be willing. I'd bet there are more than a few wives in that group leery of her. At least they should be.

And I have serious doubts that she has been faithful ever since. Someone with her mindset about cheating is going to have a hard time staying faithful. I’m sure it’s hard to hear this but her cheating likely continued whenever the opportunity arose whether she will admit to it or not. You provide the comfortable home and life so she keeps you around but she has her fun elsewhere.

LP, I think you should heed the wise words of so many posters here and not trust this woman. I don't think she's ever been fully committed to you or the marriage, or perhaps any marriage. That declaration in front of all the new neighbors....my husband would never be going over there! She seems to be a very selfish person who I think has used you, and I'd be worried about what she'd do with any money you left if you passed on (God forbid). I would definitely see a lawyer to put controls and conditions on that because someone like that could easily run through a considerable load of money and just spend it on herself or give it to boyfriends. It DOES happen. If you want your children to be safe in the future, you have to set that up now. I would not put any faith or trust in her at all.

In fact, that in itself might be a reason to consider divorce because that might make inheritance clearer (and harder to break). I assume you live in an area which like most just allows the surviving spouse to inherit everything - you really need to see a good lawyer to ensure this does not happen because I could easily see her blowing whatever you leave and leaving your kids with nothing. THIS HAPPENS. Don't tell me she's a good mother or any such baloney, I wouldn't trust this woman as far as I could throw her. Take your power back and be skeptical, she's worse than you think, IMO, and you have to protect your kids.

[This message edited by BondJaneBond at 5:48 PM, Monday, August 18th]

After reading all these posts, I believe this relationship only works for her when she cannot control you. It’s a game to her.

As in " I want what I can’t have".

You broke up and had another ( probably good) relationship. Miss Cheater finds out and ruins it and says "she wants you back". But not long after she’s cheating/flirting again.

All I can say is you deserve better.