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I'm 5 months from DD which I know is early days and whilst I am doing better with therapy in that I can function and am no longer hysterical/zombified, I find myself struggling more each day. The hysterical bonding is over and the fear of my WH abandoning me has passed but the more we talk and the more I learn of his reasons why the less attracted I am to him.

I understand WHY he cheated - escapism, addiction, family history of cheating, stressful time in our lives with a third baby on the way and financial troubles, ADHD, poor coping strategies etc etc

However, I still cannot understand HOW he could cheat for 2 years and then hide it from me for another 12.5 years despite me regularly asking if he had cheated on me and him swearing on his kids lives he hadn't. I can't understand HOW he cheated on his ex partner 3 times. I can't understand HOW he cheated with his best mate's wife (the AP who he cheated on his ex and me with was the wife of his best mate, the mother of his god child).I cant understand HOW he could not tell me he had cheated with this woman when he introduced her to me when I was honest about all my previous partners with him. I can't understand HOW he could have her at our wedding and her husband as our best man. I can't understand HOW he could text her to apologise when she brutally told me over Facebook 12.5 years after the affair ended. I don't understand HOW he could go to work on DD and leave my kids to pick their distraught mother off the floor. I don't understand HOW he could do any of this unless he was stupid, cruel, selfish and a coward. And if that is the case, how can I be attracted to someone with those characteristics? He says his not that man anymore but he was willing to take this secret to the grave. He has been 'that man' longer than he hasn't!

But here's the kicker, if we don't successfully reconcile, I feel like a failure..I feel like not getting over it means I'm emotionally immature, that I would be an idiot to throw away our marriage over something that happened so long ago, that I would be cruel to split upy kids family due to my inability to get over it. That I will live to regret it if I walk away.

It makes me feel like I have no choice but to stay and try to make it work because I feel sorry for him and want him to be able to redeem himself, because I have to put the kids needs above my own and because I am not capable of being on my own and will regret leaving him.

However, deep down I feel sure that this is a deal-breaker for me and I will struggle to feel respect and faith in my husband again and that I will start to resent him.

I wish he had told me at the time/I caught him and the anger at how he was treating me would have carried me through and I know he wouldn't have been capable of doing the work then. Problem is he has changed in many ways for the better over the past few years but I feel sick when I look at every picture of our lives together and know it was build on lies and dishonesty.

I am having regular pyschotherapy and I'm going to start EMDR but what I really feel I need is a time machine to go back and catch him in the act so I could justifiably leave him and get on living an authentic life.

Above all I just want peace and I don't know if I'll ever have that with him now but If I leave I think I won't have peace as I'll beat myself up telling myself it was in the past and I should have tried harder to get over it!

I really am stuck between a rock and a hard place 😔

[This message edited by Evio at 1:37 PM, Tuesday, July 1st]

But here's the kicker, if we don't successfully reconcile, I feel like a failure..I feel like not getting over it means I'm emotionally immature, that I would be an idiot to throw away our marriage over something that happened so long away, that I would be cruel to split upy kids family die to my inability to get over it. That I will love to regret it if I walk away.

I think you need to intentionally target these beliefs and change them internally. Leaving a marriage over betrayal is not emotionally immature. Would you call your sister or best friend or child emotionally immature under those circumstances? The time past isn’t in anyone’s favor, it’s like he hid an infected limb and it just kept festering. It was a further crime to cover it up for so long. Your concern for your kids is honorable, but nothing about choosing R or D here will be cruel. It was their father who has betrayed them as well as you. And I can only say that I don’t regret the choice to D at all, and many here say they feel the same way.

I know it’s unfair and awful. I’m sorry you are put in this position. You have a terrible choice to make. The things you said up above will only hinder your ability to make it.

Thank you ink..my counsellor keeps trying to get me to see that I have choices but it feels very black and white and with little chance of happiness either way. However, lately I just want to be free...if I didn't have kids I think I'd move to the other side of the world! The thoughts not just of the affair but if the horror of finding out my husband is not the kind, brave, selfless man he portrayed himself to be is eating me alive. I think about it all day other than when I am writing my dissertation and then I dream about it or dream about being stuck in castle, crypts, burning buildings and trying to escape only to wake at 3 am and wrestle with my thoughts again. This happens every day/night and it's just so exhausting. Then there's therapy. Then there's managing the kids trauma from all of this. Then there's just life. And it's just so bloody exhausting and feels so unfair but that makes me feel like a spoilt child as there is definitely people out there who have it worse.i just wanted a quiet peaceful life with my family and instead I married a man who wanted to shag his best mate's (very unattractive) pregnant wife and get her to send him pics of her saggy t*ts...how did I end up choosing so badly?!

Oh and whilst I didn't catch him having an affair at the time...I did question him texting her and he claimed they were just friends and I caught him watching porn and liking pictures online which made me so insecure about my post partum body I ended up having plastic surgery and he seemed happy with the 'new me' and yet him affair continued...then I got really ill and had 3 emergency surgeries and deep depression and yet still his affair continued...in fact it only ended when she decided to end it for her vow renewal but he still made us go to that and stayed text friendly with her until her husband finally found their sexts on the cloud.

So I don't even know if he would ever have ended it...he said he had no plans to but that 'all things run their course'

[This message edited by Evio at 2:09 PM, Tuesday, July 1st]

If you don't reconcile then it will be because he cheated on you and broke his vows. It will be his failure.

Every single person who cheats does so knowing that it could end their relationship if it's discovered. Maybe your husband was arrogant and thought he could hide it forever, but I can assure you that he knew it was a possibility and that's why he took great care to hide it from you.

And you're correct that this would've gone on forever if the OW hadn't outted him.

You also have a very good reason to believe that this wasn't his only AP. He was having inappropriate communications with other women at work, as I recall.

If you want to try to make it work with him, that's your decision. But if there's 2 common mistakes that practically every BS makes, it's these (1) Accepting 100% of the burden for whether reconciliation succeeds or fails (2) Making excuses for why their WS cheated (eg, escapism, addiction, family history of cheating, new baby, financial troubles, ADHD, poor coping strategies, etc, etc)

Those two mistakes combined are a tragic recipe for ending up as a BS who is still traumatized, miserable, and trying to cope with an unremorseful spouse 5, 10, or 20 years after Dday.

Ask me how I know.

Thanks Blue...I think I'm making excuses as I can't accept I married a man capable of intentionally cheating on me...he knew how I felt about infidelity, he knew how I felt about STDs etc (I made us both have std checks at start of our relationship once I realised he'd has unprotected sex with a colleague - who had sex with everyone - behind his girlfriend's back). I was devastated when I found out he had had unprotected sex back then yet he went on to do it to me and whilst I was pregnant/breastfeeding and with a woman he knew was having multiple affairs and he got a kick out of how 'dirty' she was! How could he risk mind and my babies health like that?
I also found out when we started dated that he had seen a prostitute in the past and he admits he would have never told me (a fellow colleague did). He knew how I felt about this and lying but yet he did it again.

As for the work friends...the two females colleagues (one of which he trained) were his only friends - his only male friend ever was the best mate he betrayed. Whilst he texted them both lots... I was never suspicious of one as she was older and unattractive however, her daughter actually accused her of having an affair with my husband - they texted a lot and met up for coffee both with and without me. I just laughed it off as I was friends with her and her husband so had no suspicions and their texts always included talking of me, the kids, her husband etc obviously now I know being friends with people doesn't stop affairs...hell even the AP being pregnant with his best mates child didn't stop him.

The second one was a single 30 year old and I was a lot more suspicious of this as she called him her work besties and started to suggest they meet up for dog walks and there was never any mention ofe or our kids in their texts.I told him by constantly texting her while he was with me he was giving her the wrong idea and disrespecting me. He stopped for a few days then started again but this time mentioned me.

They both became a running joke in our house as 'dads other girlfriend' clearly I had no idea at the time he had actually cheated one!

Now if he was really a changed man...why would he put himself in these situations? And even if it was just naivety/friendliness, when I asked him to stop and told him it felt disrespectful...if you truly felt remorse for the past cheating surely you would!

He is just so convincing telling me he has changed and he is not that man anymore and he love bombs me so much but then I always believed him when he'd look me in the eye and swear on the kids lives he hadn't cheated then when this came to light he said 'theyre just words,'

Did you try reconciliation?

Also I'm 43...I feel my choices are stay with my WH or be alone. Unless I am lucky enough to meet another betrayed, I could just meet another lying cheater whose wife has had enough! I can't risk that!

Hi I am three years from discovery and I really understand your post.

The traits that allowed him to cheat are the ones I now find unattractive. Things I would once have accommodated - low self esteem, I now cannot accommodate. Ones I overlooked, selfishness I now find abhorrent and self call them out or if inappropriate to call out I look on with disgust.

He has gone from being someone very special to me, to someone I struggle to see in a good light.

However I take zero percent of the blame. No one can make another human betray themselves or their family (assuming no gun at the head). I was in the same marriage. I have a spouse that I find unattractive and whose personality traits and values are apparently incompatible with my own yet I’m not cheating. I could if I wanted to. It’s very easy to find someone to cheat with via an app on your phone. I could experience the sweet nothings from someone or sexy and sultry genitalia shots. Yet that won’t fix my problems and I can guarantee I feel worse than he did when he cheated.

So op I get you. But if it fails it isn’t your fault at all. You’ve done more than you needed to. He’s done far less than he promised when you got married.

His time to say ‘I’m unhappy’ was prior to him throwing in the grenade. He didn’t, instead he became/reverted to being a sneaky liar. My spouse cheated because he felt entitled to cheat. It may be the same with yours. Look for signs of entitlement - you may find them. Mine hid them and was angry inside - this anger gave him permission. He talks more now.

Understanding however hasn’t helped me find him attractive. It’s just helped me spot his flaws easier.

A year or so ago he seemed to think if we split now it wouldn’t be down to him being a cheat. That was eye opening and I corrected him from
my perspective. I’m in limbo at the minute but happy I no longer am in turmoil. I’ll get there and so will you. Look after yourself and remember you have done far more than you had to.

I too wondered if I’d meet someone else early days. But now I’m sure I wouldn’t want to have a serious relationship while the children are still children.

My issue is more I recognise how devious and nasty people are and I don’t want that risk around my children. That is something I think I may struggle to overcome. If anything this is reason for me to remain - he has poor judgement and what weirdo might he bring into their lives.

What worries you about being alone? That is something you can work on. Being happy alone. Whether you stay or go it’s a good place to be.

I actually think I could meet someone if I wanted to. I also think I’d be a far better partner. And a better judge of character. But I don’t want to meet anyone.

It seems he has a history of sneaky behaviour and lying. He thinks he can purchase consent too. None of this is your fault.

I’m with you on the love bombing - he’d make me feel safe and comforted, now I see it as love bombing. Yuk.

Evio,

Yes, I tried reconciliation after both my Ddays. In fact, I would say that the most popular misconception that people have about it cheating is that the BS's default reaction is to get divorced. Unless the BS was already considering divorce, I would say that almost all BSs try reconciliation. Nobody wants to completely upend their world, especially if they have kids. I didn't have kids with my ex, but I took my vows seriously, I was deeply in love with him, and I wanted to believe it could be fixed.

I was married for 3 years and discovered an affair with a co-worker. I couldn't confirm that it was physical and so I let myself believe it was "just an EA," and bought all of his excuses about childhood, stress, things that I had done wrong in the marriage, etc. I had reason to suspect other women, too, but just convinced myself that my husband was a friendly, outgoing guy. I tied myself into knots trying to be the perfect, understanding wife.

Then, 4 years later, I was rewarded for my commitment, loyalty, and patience with Dday #2-- an ex-girlfriend that he reconnected with, thanks to my psychopath sister-in-law. Again, I had no "smoking gun" that the affair was physical, but I'm a grown-ass woman who knows that adults don't say certain things to each other unless they're fucking. Long story short, I still tried everything to make it work, but he wouldn't lift a finger to work on the marriage or himself, never broke contact with OW, and attended one disastrous MC session with me. That's when I left. I had hopes that coming home to an empty home would be a wake-up call, but it wasn't.

Also I'm 43...I feel my choices are stay with my WH or be alone. Unless I am lucky enough to meet another betrayed, I could just meet another lying cheater whose wife has had enough! I can't risk that!

Look, I'm not telling you to get divorced. You have kids with your husband, so you have several important reasons to at least try to see if reconciliation possible.

But if you truly believe that your only choice is your WH or being alone for the rest of your life, then you're setting yourself up for failure. Not your marriage failing, to be clear, but failing yourself. You will inevitably end up settling for less than you need and you deserve because you're making decisions based on fear.

Here is an analogy I use often: If you invested your life savings with Bernie Madoff and you found out that you lost it all, would you continue investing your money with him because you're afraid that another financial manager would do the same thing? That would be ridiculous.

Also, 43 is not old. How would you like to be 53, 63, or 73 when your next Dday comes? What if he gets another woman pregnant? What if gives you an incurable STD? What if he decides that reconciliation is too much effort and decides to leave you? What if he gets in trouble for sexual harassment at work? What if his OW gets killed and he becomes a suspect in her murder?

If you think everything I just wrote in that paragraph is ridiculous and far-fetched... well, each one of those things has happened to a betrayed spouse on SI. I bring them up not to scare you or try to convince you to divorce, but to give you some clarity. There are worst things that can happen to you than being alone.

And lastly, I feel like this goes without saying, but not every man out there is a cheater. I think saying "Well the next guy could be a cheater..." is a huge cop-out. I didn't think I would ever find anyone better than my husband and was prepared to live out the rest of my life alone... but my current husband surpasses my ex in every way. Beyond just not being a cheater, he shows me more love, kindness, and respect than my ex ever did.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:29 PM, Tuesday, July 1st]

How much are you letting fear drive you? Have you read the 'fear vs reality' thread in the D/S (Divorce/Separation) subforum? What do you think? Is the devil you know really worse than the devil you don't know?

43 ... on average, you've got about 2/3 of your adult life left.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:46 PM, Tuesday, July 1st]

I am absolutely driven by fear...we moved away from friends 5 years ago to a rural location and whilst I have a couple of friends locally, I have no real support network. Although my kids are 18, 18 and 14 two are autistic and one ADHD and that means they still need a lot more support than neurotypical teens.
Also, I have never felt worthy of love or safe due to my childhood and literally only started believing my husband loved me about 5 years ago (which is quite possibly true!) but now I'm so scared to be on my own, to have no safe person, no one to comfort me after a bad day and I'm so scared of being lonely.

I'm pathetic aren't I?

Also, i think I can see my husband truly loves me now he realises how close to losing me he is and my attempts to reconcile only strengthen that love for me but the same isn't true in reverse.

I have this theory that I have been tossing around in my mind for some years...
Basically – if you don’t appreciate how delicate your marriage is, it’s not really worth keeping.

Let’s put it this way: If you are asked to transport a box of nuts and bolts across town you would just drop the box into the rear of your vehicle and drive off. Chances are you might even stop for a coffee and even leave the seemingly worthless box in your unlocked vehicle.
If however you were asked to transport a box containing a fragile Faberge egg... Something tells me it would be carefully placed in your vehicle, you would drive slowly and carefully and take immense care.

It’s sort of like your marriage. If you don’t think it can end, you don’t really need to be careful. You can ignore your husband, maybe even have an affair or two, can shut down the sex department, can let the house get cluttered and dirty, can spend all the family money... and if both of you are in the this-marriage-can-never-end boat... there wont be that bad consequences. Neither one of you wants to end the marriage. No initiative to change, to improve.

If however you realize, grasp and accept that there are only two reasons you two are married... well... that gives you both immense power, and it gives you something to work towards.
Those two reasons are simply YOU want to be married to him, and HE wants to be married to you.
That’s it. Plain and simple.

Of course, your will to be married to him is based on a series of factors. Like you want him to be faithful, non-abusive, a partner, attentive, take part in providing for the family, a carer and a giver... He might not make the grade on all factors, but as long as you are happy with some key-ones you remain with a will to remain married. The more boxes he ticks – the greater your will.
If – for example – he has an affair, that should lower your will. Maybe even to the level where you no longer want this marriage. His response would be key. Like you, he also is in this marriage because he wants to. Maybe HE wants you because you are great to be around, a good wife, a fantastic mom to the kids, the center of his home and all that, but he also wants to keep his OW...
He is free to do that. He can continue the affair and still expect you to be his wife.
Only... Then it’s YOUR call to say you no longer want this marriage.

There is no shame in reconciling and there are numerous couples here on SI that have done so. There is no shame in divorce, and there are numerous people here on SI who have done so. If there is any shame, that would be to remain in some form of limbo for years longer than necessary. When you have given up on any hope of R, but haven’t pulled the D trigger.

So if you have doubts about your marriage but fear divorce then see if R can take place. Only be totally realistic about the process and progress. Just like that Faberge egg – you can drive carefully and do your best, and still be side-swiped by a punk crossing a red-light.

I think a key moment in reconciliation is when you can tell your husband that the only thing keeping you there is that you want to be there – as is. That if he wants something outside the marriage then he’s free to do so, but at the cost of you no longer wanting to be there.
I think that if both partners work towards getting their marital needs met, while at the same time meeting the needs of their partner, the dynamics should ensure the needs are realistic and "sensible" and fit within what both are comfortable and happy with.

BTW – Even if you manage to reconcile, do spend a couple of hours understanding what divorce might look like. Knowledge tends to remove fear, and it makes you more capable in taking the stance that the only reason you remain married is because you WANT to remain married, rather than you HAVE to remain married.

You're not pathetic at all. You fell in love and trusted your husband to do right by you. He took advantage of that. Further, I have little doubt that the position you're in now--isolated from a support system, reliant on him-- is by design.

Also, i think I can see my husband truly loves me now he realises how close to losing me he is and my attempts to reconcile only strengthen that love for me but the same isn't true in reverse.

Please believe me when I say I'm not trying to hurt or demoralize you when I say this but I don't think your husband is at all afraid of losing you. Even if you haven't said that you're afraid of being alone and don't want to get divorced, he knows it. It's only 5 months post-Dday; he's probably thinking that maybe in 6-months to a year, this storm will passed. If you haven't already, you're going to get some variation of "That's all the past why aren't you over it yet?"

In fact, that's what he's saying when he keeps insisting he's a "changed man" when it's only been 5 months and he hasn't done any work (and love-bombing doesn't count). He has been lying to you for your entire marriage and cheating on you for most of it. So for him to say that he's changed and you should totally believe everything he says now isn't just absurd, it's arrogant.

One refrain over and over again in your posts is "How could he do this?" How could he be godfather to OBS's kid, how could he do this while you were pregnant, etc. The easiest and simplest explanation is: he doesn't care. For some people, the affair is the point; the deceit is just an ugly thing you have to engage in to have the affair. However, I truly think that, for your husband, the deceiving his loved ones was just as exciting and stimulating (if not more so) than the sex itself.

How do I know this? Well, if you stick around on SI, you will see that a lot of people noticed very distinct shifts in personality for the WS during their affairs (more irritable, more secretive, withdrawn, depressed, etc). Or even something just feeling "off." That's because people who actually have a conscience will get really stressed out when they're lying or doing something they know is wrong. They also have to invent reasons that their BS deserved to be betrayed in order justify their actions.

But your husband is missing that crucial empathy chip. That's how he got away with cheating for so many years and was cool as a cucumber every time he was confronted. He can say he loves you and that you're the most perfect wife on Earth, and actually believe it-- even though he's screwing around behind your back.

If you want to know what's going on in the mind of someone like your husband (and can actually stomach it without getting re-traumatized) I recommend you look up posts by the user atomic_mess. He is a WS who was banned from the site because he was using SI to get his rocks off by arguing with BSs. But I think his posts provide valuable insight into how a serial cheater can think of himself as a loving, devoted husband, even while he's stabbing his wife in the back.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:45 PM, Tuesday, July 1st]

Hi Evio,

I'm a former WW who confessed to her betrayed partner immediately after the affair, but I insisted on staying "just friends" with the OM. I also minimized the extent of the A. My BH's pain went largely unprocessed as he danced the pick-me-up dance, and it all blew up almost 30 years later when he started pressing me on the way my original story didn't add up. That was seven years ago.

I want to validate that the time that's passed since your husband's affair does not lessen his offense. It increases it. By the time my BH had the full story, we were married with three kids (also neurodiverse) and fully commingled finances. Some people might (and some people did) say that it was water long under the bridge, and that thirty years of fidelity was proof that I was a good bet for reconciliation. But by lying to him, I took away so many other possibilities. If we divorced and he met someone new tomorrow, he'd be 96 before they were together as long as he and I have been together. And there's no completely getting rid of me; I'd be there across the aisle at our daughter's wedding, I'll be Grandma someday. If he'd walked on D-Day 1, I could have been a distant memory. That's a monumental theft of his agency, and worthy of both anger and grief.

In order to heal, my BH had to acknowledge the validity of his pain so that he could decide what the best path was for him. That had to include the possibility of D, painful and scary though it was for both of us to contemplate. I'll add my voice to the chorus that says 43 is not too old to start fresh. I read stories here all the time of new marriages that shine a light on the problems of the original marriage, problems that went well beyond infidelity.

I'm not saying it's wrong to stay, but it's absolutely not wrong to go. You deserve a life away from him if that's what sounds best to you.

You're not the crazy one for wanting to step away from this Jerry Springer show. Six months is when the zombie fog tends to clear a bit, and the anger kicks in.

Use it to your advantage. He doesn't sound like a good person TBH.

Hugs.

Onward.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 5:20 PM, Tuesday, July 1st]

Blue - I did notice a few changes in his behaviour at the time but life and kids were stressful so it wasn't anything exceptionally out of the ordinary.

He did admit that for years after the affair he masturbated to memories of it from the time he had sex with her before we were together as he said the sneaking about was exciting and a thrill. I'm fact when I asked why he cheated on me he said it was for the thrill of it.

I just can't comprehend how he kept the act up...he judged other cheating husbands, we watched TV shows on infidelity and commented how bad it was and the whole time he was keeping this secret!

He said he didn't feel remorse after, he said he knew it was wrong and felt guilty but just pushed it to the back of his mind and focused on being a better husband. I can't cope with the fact he never had a realisation of what he was doing or am epiphany...my counsellor says she doesn't think he is emotionally capable of that.
He says he used to wake up crying as it affected his dreams and he definitely became a better husband and father in many ways after the affair ended...he started cooking, taking on some of the mental load etc
I guess I realise he just didn't have the same morals as me and he should have chosen a partner like him rather than a good, honest person like me but I still love him and worry about him...I know he is the product of his upbringing and he has no friends to lean on and I feel sorry for him if I leave him 😞

[This message edited by Evio at 6:09 PM, Tuesday, July 1st]

Blue - to add to that when he first saw his counsellor he said if someone had asked him to describe himself prior to DD he would have said he was a loyal and devoted husband!
In fact his card on our 2nd wedding anniversary when he had had sex with her just weeks before was signed 'your devoted husband' (I kept our anniversary cards)

Faith - it is like the jerry Springer show - you literally couldn't make this shit up! And yet he is the most judgemental person when it comes to others misdemeanors!

I always told people I had married a good egg and that he was the kind of guy to give you the shirt off his back and he is in many ways..he can be so kind and generous but where it really matters, he obviously looks out for number 1 even down to bailing on DD this January.

BSR - how did you manage the guilt? I have been so triggered by our kids birthdays, fathers day and looking at photos knowing he was betraying me then and in the years following by lying.

Bigger - I do feel at the time of the affair I took out marriage for granted...I had 3 year old twins with behavioural issues and learning delays and a third child on the way and all my love and energy went into the children. It was a stressful time and I struggled to get educational health for my children and my physical and mental health deteriorated and eventually I gave up my career.
There was not much of 'me' left for my husband and one of my coping strategies at the time was obsessive dieting. I feel guilty that I didn't pay him more attention but I did the best I could in the circumstances with no family support. In hindsight I would have given up the dieting baring in mind the OW was the size of two of me!