SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

At this point I am just embarrassed, but I would be grateful for some feedback on how to manage my reactions.

We are still married, and actually things had been going well. After finding out about his last messages to her two months ago, and I asked for a divorce. We looked at putting the house on the market but it can take up to a year to sale here and neither of us can afford to move out pay the mortgage so we agreed to live separately. Anyway he surprised me and in that time and told his fellow partner in his firm what had happened. He agreed all communication would go through him with me there and I was pleased that he was taking some ownership so I agreed again to give it a go.

He also went on an alcohol course and quit drinking. I agreed to stay as long as he kept working on himself and he seemed to be doing so much better.

But then we have had some family set backs, also something that I did around the time of the affair came back to haunt him badly and he blamed me and I felt terribly guilty over it.

Anyway, I don’t know why I did it. He had fallen asleep listening to music and I went to turn it off on his phone when I came in from a meeting with friends. I saw he had messaged her on Facebook messenger. The message was simple ‘ I would like to talk to you at some point, can you call me if you don’t hate me. This was on a Friday evening.

I didn’t say anything, ignored it the next day. But he must have picked up that I was a bit off as he kept pushing it, why don’t you love me. I then lost it, I am really angry again, arguing in front of the kids again. Doing untold damage to them. He is now saying I am a bully and is saying he wants to kill himself as I pointed out that he could easily have sexual harassment charges brought against him. We are in the Uk so not as strict as the USA but he is her manager (although based in a different location) and as far as I can see she is not responding to these messages. He last messages her two months ago that I have seen saying how he misses her and thinks about her everyday.

He is adamant that it was innocent, work related that he is so unhappy with the new location that he wanted to have a chat with her about him returning to the old office (I had suggested this as he is so unhappy) but I thought it would be a conversation we would have together with his partner to work out my husband maybe going in when she is not there. We had agreed all communication should be going through the other partner and that my husband should start transferring all cases to be supervised by the other partner and not by him.

Anyway, I just hate myself and I hate the damage I am doing. God knows what the neighbours think. Why do I react like this? Why can’t I just let it go. Is he right and I am a bully overreacting. I just cannot believe he is messaging her again. I think if it was a different woman it would not be so bad but the same one over and over again
And he is right, I am being more cold and distant but I was getting so much better. I was rarely mentioning it, I wasn’t all over him or responding to his declarations of love but I was healing in my own way while still protecting myself

[This message edited by Lemonpie at 11:25 AM, Sunday, June 29th]

He has gaslit you to the point you can’t see the truth. He is chasing her. He is still completely focused on her and plays you like a violin.
See a lawyer. Get the scoop on how you can manage your new life. Your ws wants you at home like any appliance because it makes his life easier.

A typical gaslight is to manipulate someone to the point they lose it then accuse them of being hysterical, a bully, crazy etc. Sound familiar?

Read the book GAMES PEOPLE PLAY while you are getting your ducks in a row.

I agreed to stay as long as he kept working on himself and he seemed to be doing so much better.

Do you believe this? I mean, REALLY believe it?

I know you feel embarrassed. But I think that the sooner that you get real honest with yourself, and hold yourself accountable, you will be able to see more clearly what most people here have been telling you from the beginning....the relationship is toxic. Either BOTH of you make changes, or it will stay the same at its core.

You can only control you, and from what you have posted, you aren't really happy with yourself, particularly losing it in front of the kids. So what's stopping you from working on this trait? It's not your WH's fault because he's doing his same wayward things. You're the one who needs to be the adult. You see how rotten you feel afterwards. So work on this, I mean hard, so the next time a situation comes up, you handle it with dignity, and can look back later, and be happy with how you responded.

Next, hold yourself true to your words--you would try to work on the marriage as long as he was putting in the effort. You now see his *real* effort. What are you going to do moving forward?

My questions are not to make you feel worse. They are to empower you. As long as you commit actions that YOU are ashamed of, your WH is going to continue to play upon them.

Yes thank you, I am terribly embarrassed by what the neighbours must think.

I find it hard that he never takes ownership. Like his immediate response is I have done nothing wrong but I know all I can control is me. My poor children, I am a terrible mother when I am like this. And I see it all and I know my son knows too much. I live in a small village and must be getting such a horrible reputation that know one would want the kids to come here. I know the windows are open and yet I say things like are you texting your gf again when I see him on his phone, or I raise with him why I am so angry and I called him pathetic for chasing after a young girl.

I just don’t know why I get so angry, and I raise to him why I am angry and I called him an idiot by text yesterday for potentially having us face a sexual Barra amber case.

Sorry, I have made myself the talk of the village. I have just handled this so badly since the moment I found out. I am normally very laid back but let it all build up and then explode

Sooooo - let’s go to you make the call.

Behind your back your CH (who’s still a cheater) contacted the OW and asked to talk. I don’t care what it was about he KNOWS that he crossed the line and did not hold himself to the agreement you made.

🚩🚩🚩

You had every right to be angry and upset. He does whatever HE wants and then gets mad at YOU when he’s caught.

Do you see how he has manipulated you?

I understand being upset at yourself for how you handled it. But had he not lied and did what he did behind your back, there would have been no outburst.

Soooo…..what are your best next steps?

He’s proven to you (no matter how hard he works in himself) he cannot be trusted.

He had the option to come to you to say he wanted to speak to the OW about eventually returning to the former job location but he did not.

Because I am certain there was more to him reaching out. Again another lie. Another 🚩. Another selfish move.

I’m glad you found his email. You deserve to know the truth.

What is your call or thoughts on this?

Thank you,

I know so many red flags. He actually has just come down and as I am still really off with him (it has only been two days since I saw the messages), he has called me a bad wife (I have still made all his meals, and done his washing), and that if I had shown him the love and respect he deserves we would not be in this mess. The whole I am going to kill myself routine has now been replaced with this is all your fault. And he wonders why ‘’no one loves him’ he is constantly saying this to the kids, it is really frustrating. Anyway, I still don’t like how I act and behave so definitely something to work on and it helps to vent here.

Wash rinse repeat.

Nothing had changed. Nothing has changed. He just managed to pretend a little longer, and you bought it.

You (and your kids) need out of this toxic situation in the worst way.

He stopped being your husband through his actions.

STOP BEING HIS WIFE.

The1stWife just posted above. Ask her what wifely duties she stopped performing when she realized her husband was still being wayward. Stop cooking his meals; stop cleaning his clothes. STOP ENGAGING WITH HIM. That is how you break the cycle.

If you had shown him the love and respect he deserves, you wouldn't be in this mess???

Not only is that blame-shifting, but it sounds like projection (he's accusing you of his own behavior - not loving you and respecting you the way you deserve). Are you familiar with DARVO? If not, read up on that.

Your WH sounds controlling and manipulative and like someone who will use you, as long as you let him. You are not a bully. You're being gaslit. Like jb3199 said, the way to break that cycle is to stop engaging with him.

You have gotten great advice on this forum, and I hope you are able to put it to use and turn the corner to a more promising future.

Everything that everyone has said here. Every. Single. Thing.

Lemon pie, you are so stuck in this cycle. You come here and say that you get it, that he hasn’t really changed. . .again, and vow to lay down hard boundaries, but each time, what really seems to be happening is you are looking for the next thing to just get him to be nice for a few days. Then, you come back and proclaim that "he was doing so well!" And "he seemed really different". . .BUT. . .he wasn’t. Again.

This is not only his pattern. It’s yours. Until you own that and make serious changes within yourself, nothing is going to change.

No matter what you threaten. . .NO MATTER WHAT, he knows that he just has to drop a couple of minor temporary good behaviors on you, and you reverse every single boundary you had set up. You are accepting a few days or weeks of totally fake reform, and deciding that you can back off on everything and go all in again. Then you are shocked and devastated that what you convinced yourself might really be it this time was just another lie from him.

You are retraumatizing yourself over and over because you refuse to understand what everyone here keeps telling you. He is not changing. . .EVER. He is just faking it for long enough to see you relax and let down your guard again. He is doing this to you OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER. He has no intention of really changing any of his behaviors. He knows he can get away with this endlessly BECAUSE HE HAS DONE IT SO MANY TIMES AND YOU’VE LET HIM.

He has no intention of helping you or taking care of you or being a better partner to you. He is only thinking of HIMSELF and how to get what he wants from you.

By manipulating you.

By bullying you.

By threatening self-harm.

By playing the victim.

By berating and blaming you for HIS OWN BEHAVIOR.

He is doing it to you. He is doing it to YOUR KIDS. And you are participating. Instead of stopping him from harming you and your children over and over, you are spending endless amounts of time obsessing over what YOU can do to change yourself or convince or manipulate or influence HIS BEHAVIOR and get him to finally change.

Gently, you need to focus on YOU and how to be the person and mom you want to be. How to protect yourself and them and get yourself out of this toxic, toxic cycle.

HE needs to focus on HIM. He’s not going to do that. He doesn’t have to. He doesn’t want to. He wants to manipulate you into continuing to accept blame and provide services to him.

NEITHER of you can change the other or fix the other by ANY strategy that you come up with. Not threatening to leave, not threatening self harm, not manipulating, not bullying, not guilting and shaming, not crying and being hurt, not playing the victim. You are both laser focused on the other person and wracking your brain for the tactic that will get what you want from them.

Please, please think about this and try to internalize it: YOU CANNOT MAKE HIM CHANGE. HE CANNOT FIX YOU BY ANYTHING THAT HE MIGHT DO OR SAY.

You each have to fix yourselves. You can’t make him want to change or fix himself.

You CAN want and work to change and fix yourself and get out of this. Please hear what everyone here is telling you. Staying in this situation is harmful to you and your children. You can only help yourself. He is not going to do anything to help you heal or move forward.

I’m so sorry, but you are going to have to do this yourself. The first step will be to accept that nothing that you do or say is going to make him get it, and no, nothing that you have done so far has actually made him "do better" or "start to realize" or "change." He has been faking it EACH AND EVERY TIME. Not one thing that you have tried or done or said has actually made him change in any way at all.

Stop thinking that he is changing, stop trying to get him to change, and start moving forward without him. You have said here that you don’t want to be like you are right now. You don’t want to keep acting out because you are constantly retraumatized.

Focus on that. Focus on you. Focus on your kids.

This is hard. We all get it. No one asked our permission before forcing us to try to operate in horrible trauma. You CAN do this. You just have to decide. It will take as long as it takes. We all have to find our way through in our own way and in our own time.

What first step can you take to begin the journey out of trauma and infidelity?

Yes as posted above I did the hard 180. No meals (unless kids were home and I had to keep up pretenses). No laundry. No food shopping for him. No errands. No anything.

He was lucky I allowed him to stay at our house and even then, I told him to leave. He refused. Right in front of him I picked up the phone and called a mutual friend and asked if he could stay a few days until he found somewhere else to live.

That is when my cheating H saw a side of me he never saw before.

I stripped him of any say in our marriage. He had no decision making power whatsoever. He could not badger me to get what he wanted for another second.

And that hard 180 was when HE knew he had to change.

And it’s been 12 years from Dday and I still don’t do his laundry. I don’t do his errands either.

And he will never complain because he knows he’s lucky to still be married to me.

I stopped being a doormat after 25 years of marriage. And if it led to my D then I would have had to accept it. But I could no longer be subjected to living with a spouse who was a cheater and liar.

I hope this helps you.

Be prepared for your H to rebel and come st you. Learn to walk out of the room or away from him when he does.

If he says you’re a bad wife - just don’t engage and leave the room.

If he plays the victim - don’t entertain the drama and leave the room.

If he says he’s going to kill himself - tell him if he says it again you will call 911 and have him admitted to the hospital. Then do it!

When he can’t argue or bully you — he will eventually find something/someone/somewhere else to pull his drama.

Protect your kids as well.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:20 AM, Monday, June 30th]

Thank you, I know all your advice is so sensible. I know what I shoudl do but I don’t. We keep just arguing, he keeps declaring his love for me, claiming he has done nothing wrong, I am just full of anger as it brings me back to the trauma of hearing him have sex the first time(or maybe I never got over it). Maybe I am addicted to this cycle. I am hyper vigilant to him still cheating and each time he proves me right and I just get more and more damaged but yet keep going back for more. I just hate that I react to it, or search for it. Why can’t I just accept that he is who he is and just leave it there.

Also sorry, this is the last I will say, I think he is addicted to the high he gets from contacting her. It is not like he is seeing her or they have any relationship so why jeopardise it all.

And I don’t know if me searching for him still cheating is a way of not fully healing. I was doing so much better and was happy so why did I look? Why am I also addicted to catching him out but not doing anything about it? I don’t know if anyone on here has experienced something similar. A part of me wants to move on, but this other side says don’t you cannot trust him, and this part looks then to confirm it is right but then the other side comes back and says you have a nice enough life why rock the boat. It is like I am conflicted all the time.

[This message edited by Lemonpie at 2:21 PM, Monday, June 30th]

I think you and your husband are both addicted to drama. He could stop contacting the AP and commit himself to your marriage if he wanted to. He could leave you and be with her if he wanted to. You could leave him. Or you could stay with him and choose to ignore his affairs.

But instead, you and your husband stay together and keep going through this dance of breaking no contact, explosive fights, ultimatums, making up, breaking no contact, explosive, fights, etc, etc, etc. I don't know what is, but you are both getting something out of it.

Neither one of you really cares at all about the pain, anxiety, and long-term damage that you're inflicting on your children. You say you do, but not enough to take any meaningful action to protect them. Your children are the ones I feel really sorry for because they didn't choose this and they deserve better.

edit;add- 1stWife, your advice would be great if LemonPie's husband didn't have a history of violence against her and the kids. She doesn't have the luxury of playing 180 games with him. She needs to either commit to leaving him and putting a serious plan in place to escape, or stay married and STFU.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:13 PM, Monday, June 30th]

You are not healing because he is still wayward.
You are not healing g because he is abusing you and your children.

Are you just going to stay no matter what he does or how much he abuses you in front of the kids?

Are you ever going to call emergency services when he talks about suicide? I guarantee he has the cops and medical show up he won't play that card again as a manipulation or he will actually gets the help he needs.

This is the very definition of insanity.

And I don’t know if me searching for him still cheating is a way of not fully healing.

Actually, I believe it's a way of protecting yourself. It's just that you're not hearing what you're telling yourself.

Are you ever going to call emergency services when he talks about suicide? I guarantee he has the cops and medical show up he won't play that card again as a manipulation or he will actually gets the help he needs.

I feel compelled to respond to this thread again because calling the cops when he threatens suicide has been suggested more than once. Normally, it's good advice when you're dealing with a wayward spouse who is harmless but has a flair for the dramatic.

But Lemonpie's husband has a history of violence. He is also very concerned with his reputation at work and among people in their social circle. If he feels like he's lost control and everything he holds dear, he will become a very dangerous man.

If Lemonpie is going to call the cops on him, then she needs to get herself and her kids out of the house first and never return, no matter what he says or does. The best course of action would be to get herself and her kids back to her home country, before he has any chance to prevent it, and immediately file for divorce from there.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:53 PM, Monday, June 30th]

Thank you for the replies and this is really the only place I talk about it. I realise we are both toxic. I don’t think my husband is violent, I think we have put been on an emotional rolller coaster and I had a completebreakdown after finding out the first time which was very public and embarrassing and I think just heightened the drama between us. I have always been such a stable person but it was as close as I ever was to feeling like I was losing my mind, I stopped sleeping and told random people things, I was crying in the school playground, I didn’t hide my feelings around the kids. I think finding out about the affair when I was 6 months postpartum didn’t help combined with a baby that wasn’t sleeping and he made me think I was going mad when I first started to suspect it. I am sure I was the talk of the place and yet here I am continuing in this toxic place and so I felt so bad for having such a public breakdown and washing our laundry in public that I was overwhelmed with shame and he uses this against me sometimes.

You are all right, it is the kids that are the real victims here and I really hate myself for engaging in the drama (I am an educated person and I know it is damaging for them and yet I still do it). Why do I do it? If I just ignored it or I should leave it, we have an ok life, nice house, I have friends. I wish I had some family nearby just somewhere I could go to get space for a while. I can take the criticising here but when my husband criticises me or tells me I am damaging the kids I get defensive. Sorry just venting here, hoping for some clarity

You can't say your husband isn't violent. Your husband has hit you and the kids in the past. But you stopped talking about it-- and continue to downplay that fact whenever it's brought up-- because it inevitably leads to people insisting you leave and not giving you suggestions about how to work things out. You would rather pretend that there's no abuse happening (emotional or physical) because admitting it means you would need to get out.

I can take the criticising here but when my husband criticises me or tells me I am damaging the kids I get defensive. Sorry just venting here, hoping for some clarity

I know that it can take years and several attempts to finally leave an abusive relationship for good. I don't want to discourage you from seeking support. But if you see SI solely as a place to vent and have your feelings validated-- rather than as a source of actionable advice-- then there's really not much more we as a community can offer you because everything we say has been said a million times before.

Clarity, like closure, is something you'll need to find in yourself.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 5:55 PM, Monday, June 30th]

Bluer than blue- i get it, he has never hit me (well pre lids we had some horrible fights) he pushed me to the ground to get my phone off me which resulted in like a wrestling match.

I feel conflicted as sometimes I think it is abusive and than I hear or see women in some awful situations where they are beaten or not allowed to leave the house or work and I don’t see any similarities between that and my situation. I see us as both to blame so therefore something that could be fixable and I write about the bad times but obviously there are good times in between where we work well and are good for the kids.